Supporting Neurodiversity in the Workplace | Season 2 - Episode 3 | Recruitment and Beyond Podcast

In this episode of Recruitment and Beyond, Ewan is joined by Andy Williamson, the founder of Welcome Brain, a neurodiversity consultancy aimed at helping organisations create more inclusive and supportive environments for neurodivergent employees. Andy’s journey into this field began through his work with neurodivergent students, where he witnessed first-hand how tailoring education to individual learning styles could unlock incredible potential. After transitioning into the corporate world, Andy saw a gap in support for neurodivergent individuals in the workplace and established Welcome Brain to help businesses bridge this gap.

Throughout this conversation, Andy explains what neurodiversity is, its impact on the workplace, and the importance of fostering a culture of inclusion. From understanding the challenges neurodivergent individuals face during the recruitment process to implementing simple, cost-effective changes that can make a big difference, Andy emphasises that creating a neuro-inclusive workplace isn’t as complicated as it seems.

He also addresses common misconceptions about neurodiversity and shares practical tips for companies, from ensuring a more inclusive interview process to shifting from a process-driven to an outcome-driven approach. With a focus on communication, empathy, and leadership, this episode highlights how small adjustments can make a huge impact on employee satisfaction, retention, and business performance.

If you're looking to create a more inclusive workplace, this episode offers actionable insights and advice for building a business that values neurodiversity and supports individuals to thrive. Tune in for practical steps to help your organization tap into the strengths of neurodivergent employees while fostering an environment where all employees feel valued and understood.

Find Out More About Andy Williamson:
Andy Williamson is the founder of Welcome Brain Consulting, an Edinburgh-based company specialising in neuro-inclusion in workplaces.

With a focus on equitable recruitment and unlocking the potential of neurodiverse talent, Andy helps organisations create inclusive hiring practices that drive innovation and performance.

Welcome Brain

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Transcript

Ewan (00:05):

Hi, and welcome to the Recruitment and Beyond podcast. My name's Yan Anderson. I'm the marketing director here at Eden Scott. This is your essential guide to navigating the ever-changing world of human resources and recruitment. We chat with industry leading figures to give you the inside track on growing and developing the very best teams. Today we chatted with Andy Williamson, the founder of Welcome Brain, an organization set up to help businesses create a neurodiversity friendly environment where they can attract and retain neurodivergent thinkers. Hi, welcome back to the Recruitment and Beyond podcast Today we're John by Andy Williamson from Welcome Brain. Andy, great to have you with us.

Andy (00:58):

Thanks for having me.

Ewan (01:00):

Yeah, good. Andy, do you want to tell us a bit about why, a bit of your background and also just a wee bit about Welcome Brain please?

Andy (01:08):

Yeah, well thanks for the introduction. So I'm Andy. I run Welcome Brain and what we are is a neurodiversity consultancy. We're based at Edinburgh and we help organizations become more inclusive. And how I got into that, I've been working with Neurodivergent individuals for about 10 years now. I came at it through education. So I ran an education business that specialized in working with students who were neurodivergent and I saw working with them one-on-one. The capacity that students have, if you tailor what the information is that you're giving them to their specific learning style, it's amazing how students who struggle in school, who struggle in classroom environments can really thrive if you just alter the way you give them the information. I recently sold that education business, and so I said, well, what comes next? And it's a logical progression to me. It seems like students who go through school, they get extra time in their exams, they get these accommodations that helps them with their neurodivergence then go into the world of work and there's practically no support for 'em at all. So that is the genesis of Welcome Brain. That's how I came about it, is it's a way that we can help organizations create inclusive environments. And the basic premise is we help organizations tailor to meet the individuals that work within them rather than expecting the individuals to fit the institution.

(02:26):

And the basic premise, basic theme and thesis that we have is that a neuro inclusive business is a good business. It's more profitable, you retain employees better and employees are happier. So yeah, that's what we do.

Ewan (02:38):

Brilliant. So let's start right back at the start. What is neurodiversity? Can you give us a bit of an introduction as to what that means?

Andy (02:48):

Yeah, so neurodiversity is a term that refers to lots of different ways of thinking. So neurodiversity includes people who are neurotypical who think it's sort of typical ways, but it also includes people who maybe have a DHD who are autistic who dyslexic or dyspraxic, something like that. So it's a range of neurological conditions and someone who is neurodivergent is somebody who deviates from what we think of as typical and maybe has a condition, one of the ones I've just mentioned.

Ewan (03:17):

Okay. So do you think companies or enough companies certainly have a good understanding, a good grasp of that and understand how to help people flourish in that space?

Andy (03:28):

Well, I mean I think this is the basis of our company, so I don't think I would admit it even if every company had inclusion down pat, but I think the companies are getting there definitely. And I think that there's a societal push towards inclusion. I think there's a generational element to it. I think that millennials, but particularly Gen Zs in the workforce are now much more of with a lot of the terminology of neurodiversity. And as these cohorts age into the workforce, they're going to start demanding more and companies will be better at it. I think generally society is getting there. I think now just because of the numbers involved, about 20% of the population is neurodivergent. So it means most people know somebody who is neurodivergent one in five people. So most people have firsthand experience of it. So yeah, I think there's a better understanding of it, but that's not the same as companies actually acting on it and putting those structures in place that are needed.

Ewan (04:26):

Well, so I suppose that was my next question is what do you think it is that's challenging the companies that think it is a lack of understanding or maybe a fear of getting it wrong, do you think? What's stopping them from taking that next step? I guess?

Andy (04:39):

So I think in a lot of companies there's an element of diversity fatigue where business owners, HR managers think, well, this is just the next thing coming down the pipeline. This is just another thing I have to deal with, deal with. I think that neurodiversity suffers a little bit because it is an invisible diversity and it's not like gender diversity or racial diversity. It's something that some employees might not be forthcoming about sharing. So companies might not have the knowledge of what the actual issue is. I do think that in general there is sort a bit of a knowledge gap as well. And I think that you're right that companies are not willing to dip their toe into it because they are scared of getting it wrong. It can seem really fractal when it comes to neuro inclusion. You think, well, if we make these accommodations for this sort group, then this group is going to want things as well.

(05:30):

And every person who is neurodivergent is very much an individual, so requires quite specific accommodation. So I think that there is an element that companies are daunted by it, but I mean, what we always say is that it's very much a situation where perfect is the enemy of good, and you can actually solve 80% of your problems with some really, really simple inclusive changes that actually don't cost very much money or very much labor. You can make your organization pretty inclusive quite quickly. And I think that that's the message that we keep trying to get across is that, yeah, it does seem daunting and imposing and you are going to get it wrong, but it's a lot easier than you think it is.

Ewan (06:07):

So let's maybe take it back just a step then and just understand the challenges from someone who, from a neurodivergent background, what are the sort of challenges that they might face in perhaps applying for a job or once they enter role, what sort of things are they facing?

Andy (06:21):

I mean, it's really kind of myriad challenges that they face. And again, every neurodivergent person is in an individual. So this is the old saying that if you've met one neurodivergent person, you've met one neurodivergent person. So everybody has different experiences, but there are some sort of commonalities. And the biggest one straight off the bat is that just not getting hired. So the unemployment rate for autistic people in the UK is five times higher than neurotypical people. So a lot of autistic people just aren't getting hired, and that's because interviews come down to soft skills often they come down to a lot of skills that divergent people sometimes struggle with. And so that's when we're working with a business, that's one of the first things that we change to try and make the more inclusive. And that's something that again, you can change quite easily.

(07:12):

And then once a neurodivergent person has been hired, the big dilemma is do they out themselves as neurodivergent or do they continue to keep it to themselves? And both of those options are very workable, but that is genuinely a dilemma faced by neurodivergent people and that shapes their experience within an organization. And then it's things like the office environment, what's the lighting, what are the distractions? What's the onboarding process? What are the work from home policies? All of the things that actually, again, those are not exclusive to neurodivergent people. Those are also things that neurotypical people base as well. So ultimately what a lot of it comes down to is personalization, understanding, empathy, those are the things that good managers do to create a inclusive environment.

Ewan (08:00):

So just to think about that and going slightly off our questions here, but just in terms of that application process, you said people just don't get hired. How could a company not avoid that, but how could a company guard against that and that somebody coming into that process, their interview process, they could adapt that slightly? How could they go about that?

Andy (08:24):

There's a few, again, really simple things that you can do. So the language of the job posting, one of the first things you can look at, every company likes to use these sort of filler words or filler phrases. They describe their company as dynamic and ever changing, fast growing, all of these things that make your company sound cool, that don't really mean anything. But really those are quite off-Putting phrases to somebody who, for example, maybe is autistic because somebody who, let's say again, someone who is autistic may like regularity and stability, and a company that's dynamic and ever changing doesn't sound like a very regular dynamic company. So they think, well, this is maybe not for me. This sounds a bit scary. So the first thing is make sure that the language of your job posting is inclusive. And again, that's something that we help companies build templates for that just so that it is all inclusive. Then the actual interview process itself, I think that this is actually something that cuts a bit deeper than just neuro inclusion. I think this is actually a wider business principle because it's very rare that what you select for in an interview is what the job actually requires.

Ewan (09:32):

So

Andy (09:33):

I mean, you're in this industry, but how often does an interview come down to how well do you come up with a spontaneous answer to a difficult question? And it's very often that is what determines it, and that is actually a very rare skill to utilize in a job. So something like sending your interview questions in advance is going to make your process a lot more inclusive. And we've had pushback from companies and they say, well, it just means they're going to look up the answers and do all that. But that's what you want an employee to do. You want 'em to research and you want 'em to be diligent and be prepared like you would in a meeting. So all you're going to start doing is selecting for people who have those skills rather than spontaneity or improvisation skills or good soft skills. And again, you're just connecting better with what you are selecting for in an interview with what the job will actually entail. And then you can look at things like the onboarding process and all of those, but those are the simple things you can do straight away.

Ewan (10:31):

And so I suppose once they get the job, assuming they get the job, what sort of things, I mean we're looking for to help people that understand how to make that working environment a bit more inclusive, a bit more welcoming so that people can come and flourish in the workplace and bring their whole self to work and ensure that they can add value to the company. So what sort of things our companies should they be looking out for? What sort of things could they do to try and make that a more inclusive environment?

Andy (11:00):

I mean, it's really the first thing to do is to do an audit of your processes. So what are the structures? What does the onboarding process look like at your work? What's the relationship between managers and team leaders or team members? What are the grievance processes like? I would start with it with an audit of that, but I think also it's important to speak to your existing team as well. So this is definitely sort of a conversation that needs to happen. And the thing is, once you start this conversation, often you'll find that there are more neurodivergent people in your company than you expected. So neurodivergent people sort of already walk amongst this, but oftentimes they mask and they're not super forthcoming because they don't feel it's a great environment. But actually once you start off having these conversations and saying, well, what do you think about this policy that we have in office?

(11:53):

What do you think about this policy? You'll find that people start to say, well, actually my own preferred way of working, I don't like to do this. And it becomes a lot more collaborative, and that's really one of the best ways to do it structurally. Something that I always suggest to organizations is that they shift the way they think about their employees from process based to outcome based. And this is a mindset shift. So you think about how we quantify employees success and we say, well, we look at what hours were you in the office? Do you follow the dress code? What's your conduct? Are you a culture fit? Those are all process driven judgments about how you operate within the environment. But actually if you look at outcome driven, did you complete the work on time and to the requisite standard, that's ultimately what we should be focusing on.

(12:46):

And it's very funny to me when I work with organizations because so many organizations have an output driven approach when they work with contractors in their organization and freelancers, but they don't apply that to their own employees. And that mindset shift is really huge when it comes to neuro inclusion. I mean, the essence of neuro inclusion is we don't care how you get there or what you do. You do what you are best at in the way that you work best, just as long as you're delivering the work. That's really the key metric or the KPI or whatever that we really care about.

Ewan (13:17):

I think that's interesting. There's a change in mindset, I think, amongst a lot of companies to move towards that output driven, the move away from presenteeism, the Asian working practices now that people are working from home a wee bit more, and perhaps that is helping people from a divergent background to be able to flourish. But I think sometimes, just to go back a wee bit on your point there is just to say almost it's unseen for a long time. So I suppose it's trying to create that open environment where people do feel comfortable to say, listen, this isn't quite right for me. But also a manager or a leader being able to say, okay, let's have the discussion. Let's work out the best way for you to give your best work to do your best to do best at work. Does that come from the top? Does that come from leadership?

Andy (14:06):

Yeah, it has to. Absolutely. The conditions are always set top down. So I think that this is something that has to come from managers. And I think the ultimate goal, Nirvana, the highest level of enlightenment you can reach of neuro inclusion is actually having a sort of post disclosure world where all employees can work on their own terms. They don't have to disclose, okay, I have a DHD bring in a doctor's note and say, I'm allowed to do this or this. I think ultimately what you want to do is get to a situation where all employees, they don't have to disclose, there's no questions. They have access to these accommodations. And there are companies in Scotland that already do this, and it's incredible when you go and visit their offices, how productive are and how, I mean, they look kind of ragtag when you go and visit them because there's just people walking around and there's a swing in the office that people are just on. These are big companies as well. But what you'll find is that people don't have to say, well, I have this condition, therefore I require this accommodation. It's a lot more people are allowed to operate on their own terms, and that is a culture thing. And culture always comes from managers and team leaders.

Ewan (15:21):

So it is quite a shift for a lot of people. So how do we help people to do that? Because I know there's a traditional mindset sometimes of there's a swing in the office, how much work are you actually getting done? But is it having the right systems in place to be able to say, look, really starting from the top and saying, this is our ultimate aim.

Andy (15:42):

How

Ewan (15:42):

Do we get there? Let's work on it. Each different team is going to work in a different way. I can understand it being a challenge for some people just to really wrap their head around that. So is it just open yourself up to a new way of working and really understanding that, because I think there's a fear for some people, isn't it to say, look, when the numbers are not working, there's a nervousness that says the numbers or the outputs aren't quite there. We'll go back to presenteeism, we'll go back to people in the office. We'll go back to strict working processes where you have to beat your laptop and you have to be here for eight hours a day and whatever it might be. It's that leap of faith, isn't it? Almost for a lot of people, a lot of managers who perhaps been in a more traditional operation. Is it just that help from a welcome brain point of view? Is that part of what you do when you go in there? It's just to help, whether it's HR professionals or whether it's just managers at a senior level being able to say, look, it can work. You've just got to take that leap of faith.

Andy (16:36):

Yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah, that's right. And I do get it that it is scary. The fact that I said, put a swing in your office, that's not the first step that we advocate. And it sounds like all of those insufferable.com companies that all put slides in their office or whatever or whatever, napping areas or anything like that. So that's not the first thing that we tell a company to do when we go into, I dunno, like a seven person accountant's office or anything like that.

(17:05):

But you can definitely do it in baby steps. And again, most of what we advocate for doesn't cost anything to implement, and it doesn't even require that much work. But it is an element of a leap of faith. And again, it just sounds like, obviously I'm trying to justify this because I'm a consultant in this field, but one of the first things we say to organizations is that NASA deliberately hire neurodivergent people because of the strengths that they bring. They more than 50% of employees at NASA are neurodivergent. So whatever the importance of your organization or whatever they do, it's not as difficult and as important as what NASA do. There's a real business case behind this. So if we say you're never going to get organizations buy-in, particularly senior leaders, board members, C-suite level people without making the business case for this. And that's what we go in with and that's how we encourage 'em to do this. So there's lots of statistics that show that your business will be improved if you are neuro inclusive. So I mean, just think about hiring your area of expertise, recruitment. If you are not hiring neuro inclusively, then you're only appealing to 80% of the population.

(18:26):

So if you become inclusive in your recruitment, you are opening up to a hundred percent of the population, which is a 25% increase, and these people are going to bring specific skills and strengths that you don't necessarily have in your team. So if your company struggles with recruitment, neuro inclusion is the answer. If you struggle with productivity, neuro inclusion is the answer. If you struggle with employee retention, I mean it costs about 30,000 pounds to replace the average employee and takes 28 weeks. So that's an expensive problem to have. And if you can solve that by being inclusive, by retaining your neurodivergent staff, you're saving money straight off the bat. So it doesn't have to be sort of this mad hippie thing where we're all putting table football tables and ping pong tables and all of that. These are sort of real business principles that we're working on. These are sort of bottom line decisions that we're taking.

Ewan (19:17):

And is there any management training you offer as part of that to try and help people understand that and just to deal with that in a different way? Because again, we do some work with leadership coaches, and a lot of it is about inclusion for various different aspects of the workplace. And really, you're absolutely right, there's a definite business case for this because you need that diversity of thought, that different mindset around the board table to ensure that you're appealing to your whole customer base. So is there management training that you offer as part of that process to help people deal with these scenarios?

Andy (19:54):

Yeah, that's actually been one of our biggest services of the last 12 months has been working with managers and training managers on this for all the reasons you just mentioned is that, and that we've spoken about previously, that they are the ones, the gatekeepers for this whole process. And it is a new process and people are scared they'll get canceled if they say the wrong thing. So a big part of what we talk about is what even is neurodiversity. Here are some case studies. And the most interesting thing is we have these case studies that we use and they're based on, they're totally, they're not real people. They're sort of a conglomeration or an amalgamation of various people. And we say, this is John, he's 50 years old, he has aset a late diagnosis of adult A DHD, something like that. When we hand around these case studies, everybody says, well, I know this person. This is GDPR failure. You've written about someone I actually know about. But it just shows how actually a lot of this stuff is actually quite intuitive and very recognizable. And working with managers is always interesting because a lot of them come in with fixed mindsets actually, really, they do have quite growth mindsets. You have to have a level of empathy to become a manager, and it's just harnessing that really.

Ewan (21:14):

Yeah, because I think the general consensus is if you're at a management level and you're letting some behaviors go, you're letting some things go that don't align with your vision or your values or who you want to be as an organization, then that's where it starts to fall down, isn't it? Because that's where if leadership senior people in the company are asking their managers to behave in a set way and to deal with it in certain work processes and accept certain approaches and they're not, then that's what it starts to fall down, isn't it? That's where the breaking the chain comes, and people at various levels go, well, actually, if my manager's not doing it, then I don't need to worry about it too much because they're setting the tone, aren't they, almost for the company.

Andy (21:56):

Absolutely. And on the flip side of that, there is the danger of this is where groupthink comes in, and I mentioned it before, the idea of culture fit, which I think is actually one of the most pernicious phrases that we have. And you should be worried when your business starts talking about culture fit, particularly hiring on culture fit. Because what the outcome of hiring based on culture fit is everybody thinks the same way. And you have a very homogenous way of thinking, and you don't have people who think differently, which means you don't solve problems, you don't innovate, you're not as creative. And ultimately all business, all businesses boil down to problem solving one way or another. And in order to problem solving, you have to innovate. And another way of saying innovation is thinking differently. And another way of saying thinking differently is neurodiversity. So you absolutely have to hire people who aren't necessarily the best culture fit or aren't necessarily just people who look or act like you or respond to questions in the way you would've responded to that question. You have to hire people who have different mindsets, and otherwise your business just becomes totally homogenous and it starts to go all concrete and doesn't move. It's not flexible and it's not lean and yeah.

Ewan (23:11):

Yeah, that's a really interesting point. So a lot of the time, there's a lot of discussion around culture fit and actually we'll hire for culture before we hire for our skills, but actually it's a good change in terminology, isn't it? It's not necessarily we don't want the same people in, so it's more about the vision of the company and who can we get around the table to help us achieve that rather than necessarily everybody, as you say, the same people around the same table, all with the same mindset. So it's a really interesting change in almost just terminology of that and look at it a different way and thinking actually, how can we bring in different approaches, different thought processes, and not being scared of that? I guess the fear factor of, well, if they come in and challenge what we are saying here, then all is lost. We don't know what we're doing.

Andy (23:58):

Yeah, an amazing chat with Rob Law, he's the founder of Chunky, the children's suitcases, actually a huge company, a really creative, innovative company. He is neurodivergent himself, and he said that the only two things he hired on were competence and passion. He didn't care about culture. And he said all of the interview process was about that sort of can you draw out whether determine their competence, but also draw out their passion. If somebody's passionate in something, particularly at the startup phase of a business or got a small business, then that's really what matters actually. When things get more difficult as you grow as a business, those are the things that matter. Who cares about culture? I think that passion and competence are really what you want,

Ewan (24:42):

And that inclusion, really having that inclusive mindset from the top will drive innovation. Because again, just going back to that point we made at the start, people who feel like they can bring everything, they can bring themselves, they can bring their full personality to work, will innovate, they'll inspire innovation, and they'll drive that company forward.

Andy (25:00):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think particularly when you're at the creative stage of a business, having people who are thinking differently to you, I mean, I find that enjoyable to be around people who think differently than me. Imagine if you are a manager of a team. You don't want everybody just nodding their heads with everything you say. You need a little bit of challenge and pushback for people coming back and saying, well, actually, maybe if we do it this way. And people who say again, to use the example of someone who's autistic, they see the world in a totally different way. So they see pathways and answers that a neurotypical person might not see. And that's not sort of better, it's not worse, but I mean, it gives you an option if someone says, let's do it in this way. And so many things that we are in our society very familiar with are adventures that came as a result of accessibility. So electric, toothbrushes, audio books, these sorts of things all came about because of inclusion and accessibility and then now eventually that we take for granted.

Ewan (25:59):

Yeah. So what's the biggest misconception when you're going out and speaking to people about this and going to help companies, what is the biggest misconception you come across around neurodiversity?

Andy (26:14):

I mean, probably that it's just a license to let employees do what they want. And it's just that whole thing of, well, if I let employee X and do what they want, do all these accommodations, then is employee y just going to get jealous and start demanding the same things? If I say this person can work from home, then everybody's going to want to work from home. And that's not necessarily a misconception per se, because if you allow accommodations, you should allow 'em for everybody. I think that's actually, that's always my response, like, well, why would you not let employee y do the same things as long as we've got this outcome-based judgment? As long as their metrics are there, then let them do what they want. And I think probably there's an underlying sense, particularly amongst the older generations, that it's not real, that divergent surgeons isn't real. I think that that is definitely dying out. And I think, yeah, like I said, most people know somebody who is neurodivergent one way or the other, and most people can testify that it is real. But yeah,

Ewan (27:20):

I think that's the interesting thing for me. I keep coming back to this, but it is that as you've touched on there, you've got two people and somebody can do this or they can do that work from home and the other person. And I think it's that we really have to change that mindset to see, look, we're output focused or outcome focused. Actually, that has to be the be all and end all, because then it allows you to be flexible in that way. And you should never have a scenario where person A can work from home and person B. Absolutely. Right. But I think it, again, just go back to it's an education thing. Some things for some companies, it is very much a leap of faith around that. That's a new approach to how we do these things. No, that's really interesting. So I guess just a few practical tips, I suppose, for our listeners, just to really, your top tips for approaching this and changing the approach to your organization. What sort of things, what were your top three tips that would help our listeners

Andy (28:15):

Top three tips for being inclusive? Well, I mean, the first one is get your interview and hiring process sorted, because that's the biggest bottleneck to divergent people getting into your company. The second one is around communication. I think that all of your communication needs to be clear. It needs to be concise, it needs to be transparent. All of your policies that we're implementing, work from home policies, so much of it is based on we would like you to be in the office three days a week or whatever, but that is not clear, that's soft skills.

(28:49):

So I think you need to sort of have an overhaul of the way that you communicate. Again, there's templates around that, but just make sure that whatever you're communicating, everybody understands it, everybody understands the rationale behind the rule, and that it's very clear and concisely communicated, and that feeds into a lot of things. And then I think make sure that this is manager driven as well. Make sure that you have buy-in from the managers about inclusion. So a lot of managers, for example, say, well, I have an open door policy, but actually all that does an open door policy is it's the most passive way you can be actively empathetic, really, because it just means, look, if you've got a problem, come and find me. It, it's really passive. So I think that for a manager, being actively empathetic about this is pretty big. So scheduling one-on-ones with people and make sure they know in advance that they're not about to get fired and all of that. But scheduling one-on-ones with people, because you never know talking to somebody and say, well, how do you find the office environment? They might say, well, it's pretty good, but when John is in, he has the lights up too bright, or he's, he's too noisy, or whatever. So speaking to people makes it just a more harmonious environment, and people might be more willing to disclose their particular strengths about ways of working and things like that if you actually know these people. So yeah, management,

Ewan (30:10):

I suppose that's pathetic. It's that active listeners, isn't it? It's that communications too base. Obviously you want to talk to people, but you've got to spend that time listening to people and they're really understanding their challenges, don't you?

Andy (30:22):

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Ewan (30:25):

And that's been great. It's been a really interesting conversation. I really appreciate your time. And if people want to find out a bit more about Welcome Brain, where can they go and find that out?

Andy (30:34):

Welcome. brian.com is our website, but we're on LinkedIn Welcome Brain, and we're pretty active. And yeah, feel free to send us a message. We'd love to hear positive stories about new inclusion as well as any sort of inquiries you might have. So yeah, thank

Ewan (30:47):

You. That's great. Well listen, thank you. Watch your time and yeah, I'm sure we'll catch up again soon. Thank you, Andy.

Andy (30:52):

Thank you.

Ewan (30:59):

Thanks for listening to Recruitment and Beyond podcast. Hopefully there was plenty of insight for you to take back to your teams, so don't forget to subscribe and never miss an episode. And if you can leave us a review, we really appreciate all the feedback and support we get. It makes a massive difference.