S3E8 - Building A Great Culture From The Start

What does it take to build a world class business and a strong culture from day one?

In this episode of Recruitment and Beyond, we speak with Andy Hadden, Founder of Lost Shore Surf Resort, a £60 million development on the edge of Edinburgh that is redefining destination leisure in Scotland.

Andy shares the journey from concept to launch, including how he turned an ambitious idea into one of the UK’s most exciting new ventures. At the centre of the conversation is a challenge faced by every growing organisation: how to build and protect a meaningful company culture.

We discuss:

• Why culture cannot be bought and takes time to develop
• Hiring in a startup environment and why mindset often outweighs experience
• The pressure growth places on culture
• The role of leadership and governance in maintaining standards
• Practical ways to keep teams engaged as organisations scale

This episode is essential listening for founders, HR professionals and leaders thinking seriously about culture in high growth environments.

Andy Hadden - LinkedIn 

Lost Shore - Website 

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Beyond HR LinkedIn 

Transcript

Ewan (00:07):

Hi, welcome back to the Recruitment and Beyond podcast. We've got a really exciting episode today joined by Andy Hadden, who is the founder of Lost Shore. LostShore, I think I've watched the progress of Lost Shore over many years and it's exciting to see it's up and running and it's a fantastic addition to Edmres Landscape. So Andy, great to have you with us.

Andy (00:28):

Yeah, good to be here.

Ewan (00:30):

Thanks for joining us. I'll tell you what, actually, could you give us a bit of an insight into Lost Shore, your journey to how it came to fruition and where you are

Andy (00:40):

Now? Yeah, sure. LostShore, for those that haven't been down or possibly haven't heard of it, is a 60 million pound development on the edge of Edinburgh in the Central Belt. And it's a surf resort, Lorshore Surf Resort. And we have a wave making technology within a lagoon that's about three football pitches in size. And it basically produces top quality waves up to a thousand an hour. And the beauty of it is you can get 80 people in that lagoon at any one time. And surfing's traditionally one of the hardest sports in the world to learn, but it's also one of the most popular everywhere surfing has been accessible. It's been popular. There's 45 million surfers out there and there's a really good surf community. And especially now we're here on a growing community. But the beauty of these waves is that a touch of a button, you can have top, top level, professional level waves out the back.

(01:40):

And you can have just these nice white rollers at the front. So you can just turn up without any experience and have a really, really good beginner lesson where you can be fast tracked into this skill. And outside of the surfing, it's kind of like three business plans because I think when you're trying to build a surf park in Scotland, it's already about the Daftest thing that you could possibly think of as a potential idea. So immediately you just have to think, well, how do you de- risk this as much as possible? So we've used metrics such as land ownership, owning 60 acres on the edge of town and three business plans, which is the surfing, which in hindsight can sustain itself. But of course, when you're building this and you need to raise all the funds and everything else like that, we had to come up with a bigger and better plan.

(02:33):

So we also have 52 units of accommodation, which serve the under supply of accommodation in Edinburgh and in Scotland for visitors to come and enjoy. And then we also have a sort of F&B and an ancillary business plan, which is just a great place to come and eat, drink, and have good times with your friend, your family. You don't have to partake in the surfing, but there's saunas, there's studio spas where you can get massage and all stuff like this. We've got surf skate academies and we're next door to the Enbrel International Climbing Arena, which is the largest indoor climbing arena and Europe is soft play and so on. So really it's some of these business plans that create something bigger than the sum of their parts. And that's where I'm sitting looking out over today.

Ewan (03:20):

Brilliant. Before we get into the questions, because obviously our main focus is recruitment and HR and developing, from your point of view, developing a really strong culture. But tell us about where the idea came from. Just a bit of insight into that and then into your background as to how did you end up coming up with a concept like this? Because as I say, I've seen it. And when you saw the quarry in the space before, it's hard to imagine how you've created that. So where did the concept come from and how did you get into it?

Andy (03:51):

Well, when I grew up, my father was a school teacher. He went on to become a rugby coach. My mother was a radiographer. So we didn't grow up with, let's say, bounds and bounds of cash. But what I grew up with was, because my father was a school teacher at Mercury Castle School, it was an all boys school, very well known for sport and fantastic facilities. When I grew up in the grounds there, I kind of didn't want for anything. I could go and play tennis, play football, go to the cricket nets, kick the rugby ball over the post, do the bloody high jump. I had all this go swimming. And of course you grew up and it's not you take it for granted, but then as you get a bit old, you go on in life and you go, "Well, it got me to a good level of activity and health and fitness and sport." And I just played in loads of sports teams growing up.

(04:40):

And then I realized as I went into the workplace, just how phenomenal and access that gave you to business networks and so on. And

(04:49):

How have I got all of this access and potentially others don't? And it really roots back. And I had the facilities to enable me to go on my own sort of sporting adventure. And I thought, well, there's just not enough of that type of infrastructure in Scotland. We're a small country that generally does try to punch above its weight, but it doesn't have the type of facilities that potentially other places do. So when you combine that, let's say mindset with my property, I have a property background. I was a chartered surveyor or still am actually still doing my thing every year to keep the church and severe. And I was made redundant after the recession. I'd just joined the workforce. So I had this sudden, wow, I worked really hard to get into this profession and suddenly the kind of global macroeconomy decided that it was going to come down hard.

(05:45):

And all the graduates were made redundant in Edinburgh. And I found myself in Birmingham kind of on my own going, "What am I doing now?" I worked in an insolvency department, which in hindsight was a fantastic learning ground for me because I was extremely busy and it was a bit grim because I was dealing with assets, properties from banks and essentially having to ensure them, secure them and sell them. And I was dealing with all these borrowers, many of whom had made bad decisions, but many of whom had just gone along with the flow. And next thing you know, everything is lost. So while I was down there in Birmingham, I was surfing an awful lot. It was always kind of like my second sport, but I just did it on my own. And I got an all party's email at Colors International in Birmingham from the head of destination consulting, who was a much more credible guy than I am.

(06:40):

And he said, "Look, I'm doing a feasibility study for a surf park in Bristol." And I just brass necked. I pick up the phone from saying, "I'm a senior surveyor in Birmingham and this sounds like, this doesn't sound real to be honest. Is this one of these fads like you're on the back of a cruise ship or something?" He said, "No, Andy, there's this family, the Audrey Zolas, who've been building this secret test facility in the Bass country since 2004. This was 2012 at the

Ewan (07:09):

Time,

Andy (07:10):

And they're producing endless waves." I said, "Can you get me there?" He said, "I'll have a word with the guys." And so I turned up, met this guy, Fernando, showed me into the forest, through over mountains, the farm, and this thing opened up. And next thing you know, I saw this technology, spent the day with him and thought this is real surfing. This is actually legit. And this is potentially going to change, not just in land surfing, it's going to become a thing, but it's going to change surfing forever, which is what it's now doing. And then from that day on, I thought if I could maybe work for a couple of years behind the scenes, raise a little bit of money, use a few of my property expertise, there potentially was a leisure business. And I thought, where could I do that? Well, it's not going to be Birmingham.

(08:00):

So I moved home to work in property investment and I told my boss at the time, "Look, I've got this idea and I will be off if it works." And he was incredible Christian Bruce, he's incredibly supportive. He said, "This is brilliant." Long behold, two or three years later, I had to say, "Christian for making hideway." He goes, "Go for it. " Wow.

Ewan (08:23):

And

Andy (08:23):

That was it.

Ewan (08:24):

I love that. That is phenomenal. So I guess the big question I suppose for me is that LostShore obviously had a clear mission when it started. It was very community, it was focused on community benefit, sustainability, and obviously delivering that world-class experience. You've talked about how good the opportunity is. So did that purpose influence the kind of workforce that you wanted to bring in? I guess you're starting with a blank sheet. So did that focus really allow you to focus in on the people you wanted to join your team?

Andy (08:56):

I think so. Look, I think that we're still a startup, right? Even though we actually, because we only opened in November 2024, and we were definitely a startup back then. And in startup environments, and I'm sure this will run, it'd be the same for many small businesses,

(09:15):

The people have to all completely believe in the vision, and they have to, because it's not easy. And that doesn't mean that everyone has to believe in your specific vision. And for us, but they have to be encouraged by some part. An example would be, I was working on my own for a little while, but let's say in 2019, we had a guy called Alecandro turn up on my doorstep in North Barrack through a Rasmus global Erasmus team. And there was still only, really, I was the only employee, but there was maybe ... We'd done quite a lot by then. There was maybe six or seven of us and I had all that stuff. And he'd be a great example because Ken said, "What he's doing here?" He said, "He was 24 at the time and said, I'm fascinated by a surf. I make my own surfboards, but I'm fascinated by business and startups and techs and I want to get out there." And I'd had work experience people in the past who, by the way, were all great, but they were just work experience

Ewan (10:20):

Trying

Andy (10:21):

To help. And he said, "What do you want me to do? " And I said, "Well, I don't quite know. " So we went and we bought him a wetsuit and I said, "Until I find something out to do, just go to surf on the coast of Scotland." And of course I found stuff for him to do quite quickly. And one of the first jobs I said, "Look, I know you come over to do this, but I also worked at the Scottish Surfing Federation and our child protection wasn't up to speed at the time." Said, "Look, it's a voluntary organization. Do you fancy a crack at that? " Which is headphones on a month later, we report to the board of Scotland Federation, nine out of 10, the best child protection stuff out of all the sport and governing bodies. Next thing you know, Alexandra, "I need to figure out what all the other wave parks are doing." Two days later, just report on everything.

(11:19):

And he's just like, he's there. But his passion was he, like I was worried what waveparks could do potentially because what they could do is either surfing as a beautiful sport, like it's been around for a long time, it's got a great

(11:31):

Culture, but the nature of these developments means that it could also become just Disneylands, that kind of authentic surfing feel when the big money gets involved. And like me, if this is coming, he wanted to be part of driving it. And his big thing was ESG, really environmentally focused.

Ewan (11:51):

So

Andy (11:52):

We didn't use the words ESG, but we were well ahead. We were very passionate about this stuff. And we had many of these examples, but he'd be a guy that you could just, I called him the paratrooper. That's the type of people you need at the start.

Ewan (12:08):

I

Andy (12:08):

Don't need a CV, I don't need any, they just need to be capable, good at conversation, and just they want it And those

Ewan (12:17):

Guys. And that is, I suppose, how your culture grows, isn't it? So I mean, essentially you had, as I mentioned, a bit of a blank sheet to develop the culture that you needed. And I think that is going to naturally attract the right people. Some people have to inherit a culture and they go into an organization and the culture's already developed. So is it useful to be able to create that culture from scratch or is there a risk to that? Is it a challenge?

Andy (12:45):

You can't buy culture. And this is the thing that I do see in a lot of big organizations. And to be honest, I sort of turn my nose up at it sometimes when I hear it all. And someone new comes in and we're going to change the culture and then someone else ... Culture is something that is ingrained over years and can be lost overnight.You look at the All Blacks rugby team. There's many examples of it, but these cultures have to be nourished. And my father was the first one to really teach me that in real time because when he moved to the rugby school in 1984 at Merckstone. So he must have been in his early 30s and he decided that we were going to play a wide form of rugby. And then there is a point to this, you don't need to enjoy rugby, but at the time the school was supposed to be a rugby school.

(13:40):

I was struggling a bit, but we were playing the same way as everyone else was playing. But when he was down south, he played against Loughborough and he said, "I couldn't defend them." They just went side to side and they ran around us. So he came up and he was 34 and all the old rugby coaches that worked in the school, he said, "This is how I want all of our teams to play." Half of them didn't buy into it, but eventually he got to the under 14s and the under 16 coach. And they said, "You know what? We like this. " And they lost more games than they won in the next 18 months. And then for the next 18 years, they lost less games than they did in the first two years. And everyone, by the time he left in 2000, everyone like, "How's Marcus and got this cheat code and all the rest?" I think it's hard to build that you have to fight and you have to bring people on the journey and that culture and it takes time.

(14:34):

So all I can really do here is at the start, and we'll get onto how that can be problematic as more people come in, but at the start is you just have to stay true to your values and the people around you stay true to that. And then you've got a small chance of creating a genuine business culture.

Ewan (14:53):

No, we've talked to a number of founders and I think a big part of it is the core, whatever it was at the start is so important and it's so vital to get you over the line to get you to the next level. But as you grow that, that changes and that's where the challenges come, I suppose. But I suppose then for the roles that you need, and I won't pretend to know all the different roles and the different responsibilities as part of the wave center, but how do you go about approaching that recruitment when your talent pool is so kind of varied, I guess, and people don't know, you're almost creating a new group of people who need to come and work at the wave centers.

Andy (15:35):

Well, our business is funny because it was a startup, but it was also quasi property company in a way because we're buying land, I suppose, and we were using land values to leverage to get more funding. And we had to learn the art of planning permissions and so on. One thing I learned early was, I remember it quite well actually being very naive and nervous when I first entered the workplace. And that was because I knew I didn't know anything, you know what I mean? So I was kind of nervous. And then after the redundancy, and then I actually started to get quite good at my job as surveying like, all right, I made loads of sales and all that kind of stuff. But looking back now, I then realized after three or four years of that, that I thought I knew everything and that's the most dangerous

(16:22):

Time in someone's life. And that often happens. And then you go over that Bastion as you read more and you have more life experiences and then you start to realize you know less than you've ever known. And that's a really freeing moment because on the one hand, you realize that everyone is like that. So anyone that's saying they know everything about everything is just not true. But what you do get is you do get specialists. So when I would speak to an architect, I wouldn't actually just take that architect's advice for a battery, I'd speak to three. And you know what? They'd all have a different answer. So if they were all complete experts and there's an objective answer, they'd all come up with the same answer. So I had to learn the art of speaking to different expertise and being respectful to them, but making my own mind up on how to proceed.

(17:11):

And I think that the folk, because I learned that on my own for a few years, when people started to integrate into the office, they started to gain that confidence as well. So there's two components that I would say, there's the startup energy that is, you just need good people that care, that have value. You need skills, you do need an

Ewan (17:33):

Element

Andy (17:33):

Of diversified skillsets, not taking that away. But as you go through construction into building this thing, and then you suddenly go from, I found out about 12 to 15 employees, it was like we are unstoppable up to

Ewan (17:49):

That

Andy (17:49):

Number. We can do anything. And we did a lot of things people didn't think we could do. But once you start to jump to 30 employees and now we have 120, I remember that jump from 15 to 30 specifically. And I thought, I don't have time to actually get to know all these people and I don't actually have the time. And they've not been in the business long enough to ... They've not been in the trenches, so they don't have that kind of confidence and determination. And that's when it started to get more difficult from a culture perspective. The only thing you could do is hope that they then learn off other people who have got that culture, but by the time that gets to 120 people, it's night impossible.

Ewan (18:29):

It's hard, isn't it? And I suppose that was my next question is, how do you communicate that? I mean, we've talked to a few people about how you go about doing this and how you connect people as you grow. And you've mentioned this, the challenge is actually, how do you keep that core focus for people as you get over that 120, it's a real challenge. Do you try and communicate that or how do you?

Andy (18:58):

You try and there's hopefully a happy ending that we're kind of back to this now, but I would say I could see it seeping away in real time because what you then need as you're going to an operational company is you actually do need expertise. You need, well, HR, we're talking about HR. I run another business. All we do every year is a day with an HR consultant, check all the legislation's correct, make sure the right processes are in place and I'll hopefully just catch you next year unless there's a grievance hearing or something like that. That's easy for our business, suddenly you got three full-time HR staff

(19:44):

And there's a hundred contracts. And so you have to, okay, you know what you're doing. I'm not even going to try and talk philosophically to you've got work to do and when you compound that over departments, finance, housekeeping, F&B and so on and so forth, you actually realize, but how do we know that we're going to get all these staff that really care about our mission or ESG helping the school kid as well as being commercially sustainable and understd. And you're like, apart from doing the odd talk, but then you're just that guy at the front that's like, no one really knows and you have to listen to that guy who's talking all above his station again. "Come on guys, I've been in the trenches." It's like, "I'm just working the bloody restaurant. Will you let me go? " So that bit was really tricky,

Ewan (20:35):

But

Andy (20:35):

We were lucky because we ingrained such a strong culture to let's say a dozen people, what we've started to find is a lot of those new people that came in, they wanted to understand that and they're now some of our best people. And so we've fought really hard to make sure those people have remained within the business. And what we started to see is a settling back into that startup culture now, and that's taken us a year and a half, but it's only just survived, I would say.

Ewan (21:08):

That's interesting because I suppose some of the teams that we've talked to, there's a few practical things they put in place. There's a few things that they do to try and ensure that it does embed throughout the organization. I don't know if you've got any examples of things that you do as your HR team do, just to try and embed some of those behaviors.

Andy (21:29):

Yeah. From an HR perspective, I would say that when HR first came into our business, it was impossible to work without them because we needed their expertise at scale to have all our fair work policies, what systems do we set up? Well, we want to set up on a rippling, but our systems don't quite work. So we're going to set up a Harry. I'm like, "What's Harry?" Do you see what I mean? So you're like, there's a comfort in that. And do you know what? They did a fantastic job of doing all of that. We take all the boxes and got everyone upscaled and all the rest of it. So what we've done is we've basically gone back to a bit of the old schools. We're so happy that we have the HR, it's been set up professionally. If it hadn't been set up by professionals, we would be in a world of trouble.

(22:24):

But actually, the core of human resource, as I see it, is to make sure you kind of have a happy staff and they have avenues to do things. And we're very lucky at the surf part, which is if we give our line managers a social budget and basically say, "You have to spend it. " I don't know what everyone wants to do in FMB, but their line managers should know them and you have to spend it. Go and take them out, do whatever you want to do and almost force them into the pool because even if you're not a ... So we've got this resource ourself, we've got this practical resource, not just this human resource. And between those two components, at the end of the day, if people work here and they love the surfing and it's open to them all the time, they're going to love working here, even if it's a hard job.

(23:15):

If they don't have that avenue and that love for it, or they could love the retail, or they can love some other components too. If they don't have that, they can very easily end up just going, "This is a really tough job."

Ewan (23:30):

Yeah. And it is, I mean, startups are notoriously tough. And obviously, even when you get to the size you are now, it's notoriously tough to keep going and to keep delivering. And I suppose that's where you need teams to come together and creating that collaboration, you've obviously got varying different skills, whether it is food and beverage or somebody teaching somebody to surf completely different skills. How do you get that collaboration amongst people? How do you bring them together? I think you mentioned there about an entertainment budget, which sounds like a good way of encouraging people to get together, but imagine using the site itself.

Andy (24:09):

Well, and the only reason there isn't, because what I would have thought is you don't even need an entertainment budget, because everyone will use the pool, but there is just a reality to it. Italies who works our studio spa, she physically isn't in a position to use the pool and she's like part of the family. So it's like, well, so you still have to have this kind of line manager team, like if you want to go to the arts or you want to go out for a meal, go out for a meal, but collectively they all need to know that they can have access to this pool and it will make them feel better and happier.

Ewan (24:49):

So there's a lot of pressure in terms of running a business like this. There's a lot of long hours. There's a lot of probably asking things to do that are not in a job description, for instance. So how important is leadership, do you think, from your point of view, how important has it been for you and the founding team and the leadership team that you have there to ensure that your staff continue to deliver the successful business that you've

Andy (25:14):

Got? The leadership is by far the most important part of the business because what I started to find, and we suffer from this, is when we opened, I wanted to help everyone, because that's the world I was used to, but then it's, "Oh, there's an issue over here." Now, don't get me wrong, the general public are protected from this. This is obviously a business podcast. Everyone has always come here and had a great time and that's why they come back. But behind the scenes,

(25:43):

You start to go, and then people start to talk to you, "Oh, this and that. " You actually have to go, "I can't help this person tomorrow." I can't. The only thing I can do is understand that the systems that have been put in place above them have created an environment that all you are doing is putting a sticky plaster. If you go and help someone tomorrow, the same thing's going to happen again and again. So unless you have your board structure, the right people on the board and the right people at upper management, until you get that, not 100% right, I can be 80% right, but definitely can't be 50% right. If you have that 80% right, now by default, a lot of the people you want, now instead of having 10 issues, you just got two. And now you can start to rally around, but until you have that in place at the top, you will never, ever have a good culture.

Ewan (26:46):

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, leadership is so important to almost create the culture where there's that open communication where people can feel like they can flourish, they can innovate, they can develop personally. And I think that's such an important part. And it's interesting you mentioned the board, because I think sometimes people ... No, they don't dismiss the board, but they don't see it as important as bringing in the staff. But people on your board have to be as invested in this as you are. And presumably from a leadership point of view, you need to get the right people there too.

Andy (27:17):

Yeah. And I think, look, and it goes completely two ways because the board and the, let's call it the upper management are by some degree, and the same emotion, but they do call the shots on a big scale. Like when I was at callers and say got made redundant as a graduate, there's powers in the macro economy that I can't control. It doesn't matter if I'm good, bad, or indifferent in my job.

(27:41):

So even if we've got the best staff at middle management and say on the ground level, if you actually have the people making the decisions and they're making the wrong decisions, it can really, really hurt you. And the opposite is true. If you can have a lean, collaborative, but mutually challenging board that understands that they don't want to get in the way of the operations, but they are genuinely a shoulder to cry on or there for advice or there to keep the governance correct. And then you have an upper management that they themselves are ... I can't make someone inspirational. They themselves have found a way to inspire their team because they know that they can also speak to the CEO or the chair. You only manage three or four people in your life, like four or five people in your life. So it's more than I would like, the board is very, very important and that can act both ways.

Ewan (28:43):

Yeah. No, absolutely. This wasn't one of the questions we had, but I was just interested to know about the initial vision. I suppose it's saying, look, here's how I go, what was your initial vision for people? I guess when they come on a journey like that with you, and particularly at the early stage, what is that? Did you sell them one core vision?

Andy (29:08):

Yeah, I suppose quite simple, but split into two. So on the one hand, you had to be convincing to everyone around that this was a real business. This was a real viable- That's

Ewan (29:21):

A challenge.

Andy (29:23):

Well, I remember at one stage we were recruiting a head of finance and it was about a year and a half before we opened, and she was the person that we decided was the person we wanted to go with. And she called me and she said, "I want to do this job. I really want to do this, but I don't know if it's going to

Ewan (29:47):

Open."

Andy (29:48):

And I

(29:49):

Said, "It's going to open." And I had to live with that. It's going to open. So why I'm saying that is because that person liked everything about the business, but it It's their life. They don't want to just be part of your crazy roller coaster, but they want it to open. So that's fine. We did open. But on the other hand, there's so many tools in the tool belt to like in this resort. But like I say, even from a surfing perspective, we have surfers and we have bodyboarders in here. We have long borders that just like to chill and surf and gel. We have super high performance, best surfers in Scotland are in our staff.

(30:33):

I'm hanging on the coattails of a sport that they've already fallen in love with. We're just delivering this. So if we could get people that, going back to the simplicity, because that wasn't a simple answer, the simplicity of it was you quickly, depending on the level of management, you could tell them enough about the business to get them comfortable. Especially when you say, as a group of Scottish companies, we could be creating a global recipe for how these are built worldwide. Well, that's quite exciting as well. And that's kind of what the mission we're on. And on the other hand, Let's say for those who weren't even just thinking, they just wanted a job. They really care about environmental or education or they love the water or they love the sonnet. And so if my vision was just to build an amazing facility for Scotland that was going to help the health and wellbeing and the local economy and make money at the same time, in simple terms, most people were like, "Well, we want to be part of that too."

Ewan (31:35):

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I think that's the thing. And I suppose this, again, this wasn't one of our set questions, but I'm interested to know what motivates you in that you're the person who had to communicate this crazy idea. And at the time it was probably relatively crazy. I know there was a surf park down south, but in Scotland there was nothing like this. So you're the person who had to get this and you got the investment and you got people around. What kept you going? What motivated you to keep going?

Andy (32:05):

Because I've never doubted it. I say never. There was probably a moment in 2015 that I remember quite well, which was, again, I wasn't at the top of my trade or anything else like that, but I got really obsessed with Inland Surf Parks to the point where I was really obsessed. I love it. I still love it. The metrics of it, the engineering of it, the capacities where it's going globally, how you can make money, how it can be good for six councils. I love it. And in 2015, the world surf league, which is like the professional body of surfing, there was another technology called the Kelly Slater wave. So people listening might have heard of Kelly Slater. And he basically just wanted to build the showpiece in Landwave and he did that. He built the biggest inland wave you can imagine. I surfed it a few weeks ago in Abu Dhabi.

(33:00):

It's fantastic. It makes no commercial sense whatsoever. There's no mechanical redundant. It's great fun, but it's not commercial model.

(33:11):

And then what I saw was everyone online, this is the future of Inland Surfing, this is this. And the CEO of World Surf League came out and said, "This is the future of Inland Surfing." And I gone, I'm sat there in my bedroom, North Barrett like, "No, it's not. " Because I spent my time with the engineers in Spain, the people that have also thought about this for ... And I listened to them, and I'd spent my time thinking about it a lot in the mechanics, and I thought this is nowhere near going to be the commercial field. So if I know more than the most important person in surfing about what is going to be the future or a big part of the future of surfing, maybe I should back myself a little bit more. And so I knew that Edinburgh had a undersaturation of accommodation.

(34:04):

I know that people want to just go places on the weekend with their friends and their family, and I know that the surfing thing, as it's proved, is incredibly compelling and addictive and great fun. And I think when you combine all these things, it was just a case of going, I can see the broad shape of what it will look like.

(34:24):

I know what my business plan is going to be wrong because no one's business plan's out. You're right. But I never lost that. I never lost that. I was like, "This will work in some way, shape or form if we can do it well." And I think having a very simple confidence of that meant that all the torture that then shoot, I was able to go ... But this will still work. There'll be guys asking me to come on podcasts probably ask about it. But you know what I mean? So I always

Ewan (34:54):

Believed

Andy (34:54):

In it.

Ewan (34:56):

Oh, brilliant. So just to finish off, if you were giving some advice to someone who was starting an idea like a surf park, but a destination or something that's just, they're trying to get it off the ground and they're thinking about that culture, that how we're going to attract people to come and work here, what is the vision? What would be your piece of advice for them?

Andy (35:17):

If you, yourself, no one is going to get you out of the scrape apart from yourself. And that's a very lonely place to be. But when you start to be comfortable with that in that loneliness, then you feel like you have a superpower. And the way that I manifested that feeling was to continually tell myself how good this was going to be for Scotland and take pride in it. You can't wake up every day thinking this is going to make you rich because over a decade, you don't think like that. You have to think, how cool is it going to be? See all the school kids come down? And like this is in my country.

(35:58):

So it could be loads of different things that you think about. But I would say that if you've got a business that you're wanting to start up and you ... I know mine is slightly quirky, right? But every business owner I speak to, regardless of what their businesses speaks equally as passionately about their business as I do about the surf park, right? So if that business owner and that startup does it, stay extremely true to yourself because on that journey, you're going to have all sorts of financial and other, and you're going to feel almost dead on the ground. And so many people I see crack.

Ewan (36:41):

And

Andy (36:41):

When I mean crack, I don't mean give up. That happens too. I mean they go, "Maybe my vision isn't right." And then they look to the left and they look to the right and suddenly you're taking over and suddenly it's not anything like what you thought it was going to be. So just believe in yourself and if you believe in a vision, crack on. Right.

Ewan (37:05):

Well, Andy, thank you so much for your time today. That's been fascinating just to find out about that journey that you've been on and it sounds like it's going the right direction. And if anybody wants to get in touch or come and have a look, we'll put the details in the show notes, but how can they get in touch with you?

Andy (37:22):

Yeah, www.lostshore.com. And yeah, we've got Instagram and TikTok and all that stuff. So our Instagram page is really good. So yeah, just check us out. And there's been lots of press about us. So even if you just Google Lost Shore, hit news and you can read our way.

Ewan (37:42):

Fantastic. Great. Well, thanks again, Andy, and we'll catch up again soon.

Andy (37:45):

Okay. Thanks, Jen.

Ewan (37:47):

Thanks. Thanks for listening to Recruitment and Beyond Podcast. Hopefully there was plenty of insight for you to take back to your teams. So don't forget to subscribe and never miss an episode. And if you can, leave us a review. We really appreciate all the feedback and support we get. It makes a massive difference.